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Carbotech rp2 experience?


wvumtnbkr
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Good day!

 

Now that our braking system is working well, I would like to refine it a bit.

 

We have good success with the older hawk blues on our stock 1989 Mazda rx7 brake system.  We run blues in the front and hawk hp+ in the rear (this split works very well for us).

 

What I want to do is 2 things:

1) get more life out of the brakes (I'll spend more money to do so)

 

2) get better feel out of the brakes.  Hawk blues are not known for their ability to threshold brake easily....

 

I contacted carbotech to see what they recommend.  They said rp2 in the front and xp10 in the rear.

 

I have only run their pads when we were experiencing all sorts of brake issues and do NOT trust that data....

 

All input is appreciated.

 

If you have experience, I only ask that you include if you bedded them in yourself BEFORE going on track, or, you got them pre bedded, OR, you just #sentit.

 

That will help me compare to our standard processes.

 

We are getting a full race weekend out of the blues, but the pad material that is left is NOT enough for a 2nd weekend (I think).  Seems a waste.

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We use XP10 on front and XP8 on rears with our 2003 NB Miata. We followed our shop and Discover Parts' recommendation, we moved on from Hawks never looked back. Fantastic stopping without lockup, great modulation and decent wear. Real racing pads must be bedded before use. Go through a set of fronts in a weekend, rears will go two weekends.

Edited by mickindy14
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Carbotech horribly underestimates what we ask of our brakes, RP2 was hell on us for years as they continuously recommended them while ignoring our obvious pain.

 

What we did:

Meticulously bedded/followed instructions

Dial indicated rotors before and after

Increased rotor size 2 times

Increased ducting 3 times

 

Results:

Great brakes

Excellent pad life

Decent modulation

Pad transfer so bad the car was literally un-driveable i.e. steering wheel vibrated so bad it ripped out of your grip, the photographer comes over to say "somethings wrong"

 

After that particular *last straw* race the front struts didn't work, taking them apart we found the valving unscrewed.

 

 

Wat fixed it?

 

Begging them to sell us something different and ignoring their howls I was buying expensive paper weights

We now blissfully ride with Carbotech xp24 front   (20 rear I think)

 

Pad life is not as good but the brakes are excellent.

 

 

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RP2- never ever.  We tried them for a year and they blamed our rotors and brake setup all day long. The RP2 is a terrible pad as it depots pad to the rotor in an uneven way and causes highs and lows.  Carbotech admitted the pad was not good for racing after to me, but never publically, and had terrible compound issues with it. Carbotech also assumes that since we are Champcar we do not use enough brakes to justify higher pads and that is not true either. I went with their XP24 after, even though they recommended against it, and they worked great. They have good feel and modulation. 

 

I now have gone with G-Loc R18 pads. They feel great, have good modulation under trail braking and last me 25-40 hours. 

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Just now, Team Infiniti said:

Carbotech horribly underestimates what we ask of our brakes, RP2 was hell on us for years as they continuously recommended them while ignoring our obvious pain.

 

What we did:

Meticulously bedded/followed instructions

Dial indicated rotors before and after

Increased rotor size 2 times

Increased ducting 3 times

 

Results:

Great brakes

Excellent pad life

Decent modulation

Pad transfer so bad the car was literally un-driveable i.e. steering wheel vibrated so bad it ripped out of your grip, the photographer comes over to say "somethings wrong"

 

After that particular *last straw* race the front struts didn't work, taking them apart we found the valving unscrewed.

 

 

Wat fixed it?

 

Begging them to sell us something different and ignoring their howls I was buying expensive paper weights

We now blissfully ride with Carbotech xp24 front   (20 rear I think)

 

Pad life is not as good but the brakes are excellent.

 

 

Exact same for. Pad transfer so bad it caused vibration after just a few hours. They blamed my bed in procedure, my rotors, my calipers, until they finally admitted they had a ton of complaints on that pad. I am still baffled as to why they even sell them. 

 

BTW- The carbotech XP24 is similar to the G-Loc R18. 

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Just now, MR2 Biohazard said:

Exact same for. Pad transfer so bad it caused vibration after just a few hours. They blamed my bed in procedure, my rotors, my calipers, until they finally admitted they had a ton of complaints on that pad. I am still baffled as to why they even sell them. 

This this this

 

They blamed us for EVERYTHING, last straw day, the rotors were still without runout but streaked in uneven transfer.

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When I changed to the same brake setup as you have, I also changed to DTC60 front DTC30 rear. I can’t give a direct comparison between the Blue’s since we ran those on the crappy first gen brakes, but the drivers all complimented the feel of the DTC60 pads. We had excellent wear and fantastic braking, but we were a good bit lighter than an actual second gen car.

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No Carbotech experience.  We ran ST43s up front on a Civic.  They were like an on-off switch with our 460TW tires, but no complaints after we got some 200 tires.  Wear like iron (on a 1900lb car).  Some brake ducting, but no idea if it actually does anything.  We got a full weekend at COTA and a full weekend at Indy out of them and they still have another weekend or more left.  I kinda half-ass bedded them the first weekend (driving up and down the street and doing a bunch of low speed stops for about 5 or 10 minutes).  We replaced rotors before Indy and I did like 2 laps around the neighborhood riding the brakes a bit, that's it.  I bought some Hawk DTC 60 pads at the same time and we were going to compare them to the ST43 and see which worked better, but we never wore out the 43s before the car was sold.

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Using G-lok on E30. Their shop is 15 minutes away and people there are great deal with. Give them a call and let them know your issues and they will have what you need. Seems biggest issue I have is just thickness of pad material. Just not enough to last more than a weekend. RX7 suffers similar issue. I’m going to bite the bullet one day and upgrade to a larger rotor and caliper that can run a few races 

Edited by TimS
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2 hours ago, Robmink said:

I did forget one thing on that FC, he did IMSA his front fenders.  Cooling plays a huge part in pad wear.

Oh, I'm getting good wear.  Like 24 hours would be my guess...

 

Unfortunately, I don't trust that it is enough for 2 full race weekends (30 hours).  That means I have a few sets of 40% remaining race pads.

 

Seems wasteful to have 40% left and just have them as spares.

 

If there is something like the e30 guys are using (I hear some if the fast cars are getting 2 plus weekends out of a set), I would like to try it.

 

So, right now, no rp2.  I have contacted pfc to see how much a set of 08 would cost for the rx7....

 

I also have direct inside the rotor cooling and vented fenders.

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7 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Carbotech horribly underestimates what we ask of our brakes, RP2 was hell on us for years as they continuously recommended them while ignoring our obvious pain.

 

What we did:

Meticulously bedded/followed instructions

Dial indicated rotors before and after

Increased rotor size 2 times

Increased ducting 3 times

 

Results:

Great brakes

Excellent pad life

Decent modulation

Pad transfer so bad the car was literally un-driveable i.e. steering wheel vibrated so bad it ripped out of your grip, the photographer comes over to say "somethings wrong"

 

After that particular *last straw* race the front struts didn't work, taking them apart we found the valving unscrewed.

 

 

Wat fixed it?

 

Begging them to sell us something different and ignoring their howls I was buying expensive paper weights

We now blissfully ride with Carbotech xp24 front   (20 rear I think)

 

Pad life is not as good but the brakes are excellent.

 

 

We ran the RP2 at Road America on the Cadillac and loved the way the pad felt but we too experienced the uneven pad transfer to the rotors and managed to destroy the front rotors in one weekend.   When you say pad life isn't as good, how much quicker do they wear than the RP2?  Can you easily make a 14 hour race at Daytona on one set?   

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26 minutes ago, hcsi99 said:

We ran the RP2 at Road America on the Cadillac and loved the way the pad felt but we too experienced the uneven pad transfer to the rotors and managed to destroy the front rotors in one weekend.   When you say pad life isn't as good, how much quicker do they wear than the RP2?  Can you easily make a 14 hour race at Daytona on one set?   

Daytona you say? I would love to race against your beast! With good cooling you will last all race then some. We have a custom thickness and get 2 races.

4 minutes ago, Lethal Cliff said:

We ran the Carbotech XP8 never had any problems.  We tried the G-LOC and has vibrations from pad deposits.  We are going back to the XP8's for next year.

G-LOC was on our car one or 2 races, for the same reason, we went back to carbotech

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Sorry no experience with Carbotech. 

 

My brake pad experience may be of some use. Here it is:

 

DTC60 - Moderately expensive. Great brake pads but last 1 weekend at most. 12-16hr of use depending on track.

ST43 - Expensive. Last about 30 hours of racing. Easy on the rotors; 60+hrs on rotors. Very hard to modulate the brakes.

ST45 - Expensive. Last more then 30 hours of racing. Easy on the rotors; 60+hrs on rotors. Easier to modulate but less braking then st43. 

 

I will be testing ST 48s next year. 

Edited by veris
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1 hour ago, hcsi99 said:

We ran the RP2 at Road America on the Cadillac and loved the way the pad felt but we too experienced the uneven pad transfer to the rotors and managed to destroy the front rotors in one weekend.   When you say pad life isn't as good, how much quicker do they wear than the RP2?  Can you easily make a 14 hour race at Daytona on one set?   

Never ran Daytona.  Never ran the rp2.

 

Just looking for about 30% more life than hawk blues.

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41 minutes ago, veris said:

Sorry no experience with Carbotech. 

 

My brake pad experience may be of some use. Here it is:

 

DTC60 - Moderately expensive. Great brake pads but last 1 weekend at most. 12-16hr of use depending on track.

ST43 - Expensive. Last about 30 hours of racing. Easy on the rotors; 60+hrs on rotors. Very hard to modulate the brakes.

ST45 - Expensive. Last more then 30 hours of racing. Easy on the rotors; 60+hrs on rotors. Easier to modulate but less braking then st43. 

 

I will be testing ST 48s next year. 

At NCM we ran Porterfield RS4E pads. They felt fine and did not last all that long. These were old pads and about half warn when we started. I could modulate the brakes and trail brake into the apex. The next day we switched to the ST43 pads and rotors that were bedded for them. I could not modulate the brakes and stay right around threshold braking as well. It was like up to 80% they are fine and after would go to lock up. I also could not modulate and trail brake with them very well. I was 1.5 seconds a lap slower with the ST43 brakes and did not give me confidence. I am told that the ST43 work well with a car with a good ABS system that you trust to use very often as it controls that last bit of lock up. 

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2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I ain't gots no fancy abs wizardry....

 

I ditched ABS and went with a manual / no booster setup. 

 

The brakes modulation is fine now with ST43, but I'm looking at a more aggressive pad for some additional braking power. Some of the drivers didn't like the amount of force required to lock up. The ST48s might be the ticket. 

 

I may also play with my brake pedal ratio and master size. I'd like to find a happy medium for the crew. 

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