Tierods? Suspension part or steering? (Free?)

[turbogrill]

Hi

 

I am looking for a steering rack replacement on my Datsun, it's worn out and now cost a billion dollars.

 

Steering components are free, so the rack will be free. I would guess this includes the tierods as well? Since they are a steering component?

 

The trick is to take a Subaru Forester rack, toyota celica inner tierods, Subaru outer tierods.

Somehow that fits into a datsun.

 

So would the above is zero pts?

 

[Team Infiniti]

Doubt it, where does it say steering is free?

[Chris Huggins]

In my opinion, yes.   I certainly can't tell a datsun outer tie rod from a subaru one, much less a E30 vs a E36 one.  

It gets tricky when someone tries to make a bump steer kit using some outer tie rod that has a crazy long ball joint or something.

 

The BOD had an extensive conversation about the steering rules last night so this is fresh in my mind.

 

2 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Doubt it, where does it say steering is free?

4.7.2 "items that are point free" lists Power Steering Components

[Team Infiniti]

Bump steer is Exactly what I had in mind...How can it be free?

[turbogrill]

I should probably ask tech desk.

 

But if it's points I guess it would be 20pts? 10 for each side? (Assuming inner+outer tierod goes as one thing even if it's 2 parts)

 

What about manual steering? Is it points to swap in a manual rack from another car but a power steering rack is free?

 

[mhr650]

This is topical for me, since I am planning on doing something similar. In my case I don’t have a steering rack at all so I will at a minimum have to pay 10 points for rack and pinion conversion, but the question is what do you get for those 10 points? Nowhere in the rack and pinion swap is 10 points does it discuss how you mount the rack to the car or attach it to the rest of the steering system. The best kit for installing a rack and pinion in a first gen RX7 is the old ReSpeed kit, which has been out of production for many years, but I can recreate and improve on it.

 

It uses a complete replacement subframe, fabricated from laser cut plates and square tubing which I can easily design and have cut for me locally. For my car it would also be incorporated as part of an engine swap so I could value the crossmember as part of the swap since I either have to cut the stock crossmember up and rebuild it or just build a new one.

 

What gets into a much greyer area is that the rack and pinion kit significantly changes the front suspension. To use the ubiquitous Mustang steering rack, you must convert the car from rear steer to front steer, this means that you don’t have room for the stock tension rods that control front to back movement of the stock control arms.

 

 

The solution that they used, and I would follow is to install rear facing control arms that tie into the chassis where the steering box was originally mounted. It is a nice reinforced part of the chassis, and because they built a lot of both left-hand and right-hand drive RX7’s it is the same on both sides. I don’t see a way to argue my way out of paying 10 points each for these rear facing arms, even though they are serving the same purpose as the stock tension rods. 

 

So far it is a work in progress, but I enjoy designing and building stuff, so this is just the kind of challenge that would get me to bring the car back out of hibernation.

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by mhr650

[mender]

I used to do a lot of doodling in AutoCADD and CADKey (2D). Much jealousy and appreciation for your skills!

[turbogrill]

5 hours ago, mhr650 said:

This is topical for me, since I am planning on doing something similar. In my case I don’t have a steering rack at all so I will at a minimum have to pay 10 points for rack and pinion conversion, but the question is what do you get for those 10 points? Nowhere in the rack and pinion swap is 10 points does it discuss how you mount the rack to the car or attach it to the rest of the steering system. The best kit for installing a rack and pinion in a first gen RX7 is the old ReSpeed kit, which has been out of production for many years, but I can recreate and improve on it.

 

It uses a complete replacement subframe, fabricated from laser cut plates and square tubing which I can easily design and have cut for me locally. For my car it would also be incorporated as part of an engine swap so I could value the crossmember as part of the swap since I either have to cut the stock crossmember up and rebuild it or just build a new one.

 

What gets into a much greyer area is that the rack and pinion kit significantly changes the front suspension. To use the ubiquitous Mustang steering rack, you must convert the car from rear steer to front steer, this means that you don’t have room for the stock tension rods that control front to back movement of the stock control arms.

 

 

The solution that they used, and I would follow is to install rear facing control arms that tie into the chassis where the steering box was originally mounted. It is a nice reinforced part of the chassis, and because they built a lot of both left-hand and right-hand drive RX7’s it is the same on both sides. I don’t see a way to argue my way out of paying 10 points each for these rear facing arms, even though they are serving the same purpose as the stock tension rods. 

 

So far it is a work in progress, but I enjoy designing and building stuff, so this is just the kind of challenge that would get me to bring the car back out of hibernation.

 

 

 

 

Why is it 10pts? 

[mhr650]

Tech desk ruling said conversation from steering box to rack and pinion was 10 points. But nothing about how you go about installing the rack and pinion. 

[Bandit]

7 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Doubt it, where does it say steering is free?

4.7. OTHER EQUIPMENT THAT DOES NOT COUNT TOWARD THE TOTAL POINT VALUE 

• Power Steering Components

 

 

And yet a rack is deemed to be 10 points for some reason....

 

The bumpsteer kits I'm familiar with look like fasteners to me.

 

ECU's brakes and a myriad of other things are free yet bumpsteer kits need points?

Edited April 29, 2021 by Bandit

[Team Infiniti]

10 minutes ago, Bandit said:

4.7. OTHER EQUIPMENT THAT DOES NOT COUNT TOWARD THE TOTAL POINT VALUE 

• Power Steering Components

 

 

And yet a rack is deemed to be 10 points for some reason....

 

The bumpsteer kits I'm familiar with look like fasteners to me.

 

ECU's brakes and a myriad of other things are free yet bumpsteer kits need points?

Why is a rack pts? I would think people consider better ratios advantage.

 

Fasteners are fine if you can do it without the heims...

Edited April 29, 2021 by Team Infiniti

[Bandit]

Or just spend the 5 points for the Heim.

[wvumtnbkr]

7 hours ago, mhr650 said:

This is topical for me, since I am planning on doing something similar. In my case I don’t have a steering rack at all so I will at a minimum have to pay 10 points for rack and pinion conversion, but the question is what do you get for those 10 points? Nowhere in the rack and pinion swap is 10 points does it discuss how you mount the rack to the car or attach it to the rest of the steering system. The best kit for installing a rack and pinion in a first gen RX7 is the old ReSpeed kit, which has been out of production for many years, but I can recreate and improve on it.

 

It uses a complete replacement subframe, fabricated from laser cut plates and square tubing which I can easily design and have cut for me locally. For my car it would also be incorporated as part of an engine swap so I could value the crossmember as part of the swap since I either have to cut the stock crossmember up and rebuild it or just build a new one.

 

What gets into a much greyer area is that the rack and pinion kit significantly changes the front suspension. To use the ubiquitous Mustang steering rack, you must convert the car from rear steer to front steer, this means that you don’t have room for the stock tension rods that control front to back movement of the stock control arms.

 

 

The solution that they used, and I would follow is to install rear facing control arms that tie into the chassis where the steering box was originally mounted. It is a nice reinforced part of the chassis, and because they built a lot of both left-hand and right-hand drive RX7’s it is the same on both sides. I don’t see a way to argue my way out of paying 10 points each for these rear facing arms, even though they are serving the same purpose as the stock tension rods. 

 

So far it is a work in progress, but I enjoy designing and building stuff, so this is just the kind of challenge that would get me to bring the car back out of hibernation.

 

 

 

Damn dude.  Just do the 2nd gen subframe swap.  Way easier than all of that!

 

You can raise it in the chassis rails high enough to maintain geometry.

[turbogrill]

So converting from power to manual is 10pts (not in the rules but some common knowledge). But swapping to a different power steering rack is pts?

 

If so I could just depower the steering power steering rack if I wanted a manual (at least this works well on miatas)

Edited April 29, 2021 by turbogrill

[Snorman]

We were told bumpsteer kits (2 heims plus the washers) are 20 points last year at Road America. 

[QuaTTro]

1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

So converting from power to manual is 10pts (not in the rules but some common knowledge). But swapping to a different power steering rack is pts?

 

If so I could just depower the steering power steering rack if I wanted a manual (at least this works well on miatas)

The Audi A4 FWD I drove at the last Harris Hill race had a non functioning OEM power steering setup.  It worked fine, though I prefer to have it functional myself in a long race.  But in that case it's just a very low priority fix for the team so they just leave it alone.

[TimS]

3 hours ago, Bandit said:

4.7. OTHER EQUIPMENT THAT DOES NOT COUNT TOWARD THE TOTAL POINT VALUE 

• Power Steering Components

 

 

And yet a rack is deemed to be 10 points for some reason....

 

The bumpsteer kits I'm familiar with look like fasteners to me.

 

ECU's brakes and a myriad of other things are free yet bumpsteer kits need points?

Heim joints have always been points, everything else is hardware.