Swap Questions

[petawawarace]

Couple of questions in regards to swaps. More just spit-balling ideas so no need to ask the tech desk.

 

1 - Mazda RX7. would I need to use the turbo version VPI for this? Regular 13B model is 300pts vs 500pts for the turbo version.

2 - Swap engine is coming from a car on the list. That car is not listed as a turbo model, but it does have a turbo model available. I understand that the original car would have 100pts added, but how does that apply if I am installing that as the swap? 

3 - How is the under $2500 rule enforced? How do they get the value of the engine itself?

[wvumtnbkr]

1).  Assuming you are talking aboit a 2nd gen rx7...  you do not need to use the turbo value.  This has been discussed and the cars are different enough that it isnt considered the same.

2) I believe hp is the only factor.  You do not need to add the 100 pts for turbo.

3) I used car-part.com and showed similar engines for the value.

 

Whatchu trying to do?  I can maybe help!

 

(Swapped 2nd gen rx7 over here)

[petawawarace]

14 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

1).  Assuming you are talking aboit a 2nd gen rx7...  you do not need to use the turbo value.  This has been discussed and the cars are different enough that it isnt considered the same.

2) I believe hp is the only factor.  You do not need to add the 100 pts for turbo.

3) I used car-part.com and showed similar engines for the value.

 

Whatchu trying to do?  I can maybe help!

 

(Swapped 2nd gen rx7 over here)

Just trying to break the rule book spitballing with a friend.  
Hows the trans/diff/axles in a second gen Rx7? Handle a large increase in power?

[wvumtnbkr]

Diff and axles are generally fine.  Don't take it to a dragstrip on slicks with 400 hp.

 

I don't want to jinx myself, so I'll just say that it's not something I worry about.  At all.

 

Trans....  welll....  it's extremely similar to a miata trans.  200 hp is about it.  You should not shift them quickly at all if you don't like replacing synchro.  There is a reason that rx7 people hoard these transmissions.

 

I went to a wct5.  Mainly because it bolts directly to the engine I swapped and also because we would go through a trans a year and they aren't easy to find.  Yes, a t5 is an upgrade in strength....  (but feels like a bucket of bolts compared to the Mazda trans)

[Ian]

18 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I went to a wct5.  Mainly because it bolts directly to the engine I swapped and also because we would go through a trans a year and they aren't easy to find.  Yes, a t5 is an upgrade in strength....  (but feels like a bucket of bolts compared to the Mazda trans)

 

This is one of the big reasons I would never build/own an older mustang/Camero and even the C4-C6 corvettes turn me off every time I drive one.  Everything is fine until you try to change gears then I have flash backs to every time I've had to drive a Willy's Jeep.  Bucket of bolts is an understatement.

[wvumtnbkr]

2 hours ago, Ian said:

 

This is one of the big reasons I would never build/own an older mustang/Camero and even the C4-C6 corvettes turn me off every time I drive one.  Everything is fine until you try to change gears then I have flash backs to every time I've had to drive a Willy's Jeep.  Bucket of bolts is an understatement.

Lolz.  True.

 

However, we are down to only 2 to 6 shifts per lap with the torque we make now, so...  it's not too bad.

[Wheelman_99 - C Rallo]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:36 PM, wvumtnbkr said:

1).  Assuming you are talking aboit a 2nd gen rx7...  you do not need to use the turbo value.  This has been discussed and the cars are different enough that it isnt considered the same.

2) I believe hp is the only factor.  You do not need to add the 100 pts for turbo.

3) I used car-part.com and showed similar engines for the value.

 

Whatchu trying to do?  I can maybe help!

 

(Swapped 2nd gen rx7 over here)

The hundred points is to account for the power a turbo engine can gain just by cranking the boost and tuning... So it would still apply.



Edit: Or maybe my brain went fruedian on me and thought that is the way it should be.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Wheelman_99

[wvumtnbkr]

6 hours ago, Wheelman_99 said:

The hundred points is to account for the power a turbo engine can gain just by cranking the boost and tuning... So it would still apply.

I understand that is a possibility with turbo cars.  However, that would be making the team double dip.

 

Turbos are 100 pts to ADD to a stock engine. It is not to account for cranking up the boost.   

 

In this case, they are paying  the swap calculator for the hp gain.

 

I couldn't find anything in the BCCR that said a swapped engine had to be NA.  I also couldn't find anything that said stock turbo had to take 100 additional points.

 

 

[turbogrill]

https://champcar.org/tech/knowledgebase.php?article=162

 

Q.
Lets say that I wanted to swap from a N/A engine to a Factory Turbo engine such as a "ford Ecoboost engine"
How would this be valued? Would it just be using the swap calculator and does the swap include the Intercooler and such for the Turbo application?
 

A.
The first step is to confirm that the engine you are swaping to is used in a vehicle already listed on the VPI List.
You will be able to use the complete engine and turbo charger system in the swap.
The swap calculator will determine the additional points value of the swap.
Your run class is typically determined by the engine size, but when using a turbo, the run class is based on the engine size and then bumped up one run class.

 

You just swap in a turbo. No extra points. So swapping in a turbo is really beneficial.

 

However has to be stock turbo obviously, so adding a more modern turbo will be a 100pt. 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by turbogrill

[enginerd]

2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

You just swap in a turbo. No extra points. So swapping in a turbo is really beneficial.

 

However has to be stock turbo obviously, so adding a more modern turbo will be a 100pt. 

Your words seem unclear and I'm not exactly sure what you are saying...

You can swap in a turbocharged engine from another vehicle on the VPI list and pay your 50 + X pts just like any other engine swap. ChampCar didn't seem to care that the boost can be cranked up to power levels well beyond the factory rated power used in the swap calculator.

 

You can also add a turbo to your stock engine for 100 pts. detailed in section 4.3.2

 

You can also swap in a turbocharged engine for 50 + X pts and then swap to an aftermarket turbo for an additional 100 pts.

 

You can also take a stock turbocharged car on the VPI list (perhaps a saab) and replace the turbo with a non-OE turbo for 100 pts.

[turbogrill]

36 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Your words seem unclear and I'm not exactly sure what you are saying...

 

 

I am saying exactly what you are saying