BOD EC question

[CCR]

I would like to understand the rational behind not recognizing the EC group for 3 podium places, and trophies. Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe we pay the same entry fee as all the other classes? I also believe that from an overhead cost, EC is less because it requires less tech and points evaluation both prior to and post race. This may be seem very petty, but racing is very competitive and when all is done it would be nice to recognized.  Again I do not believe our money spent to get there, participate and go home is any different then the other classes.

 

D Schram

[frankrehnelt]

It was put in place for cars that do not comply or want to comply with the rules. If they were allowed to compete for the overall we’d be just like WRL and I’d bring our e46 M3 to Champcar. Better yet one of our guys has a GT3 RS. That would be fun.....no not really. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by frankrehnelt

[Hurljohn]

16 minutes ago, CCR said:

I would like to understand the rational behind not recognizing the EC group for 3 podium places, and trophies. Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe we pay the same entry fee as all the other classes? I also believe that from an overhead cost, EC is less because it requires less tech and points evaluation both prior to and post race. This may be seem very petty, but racing is very competitive and when all is done it would be nice to recognized.  Again I do not believe our money spent to get there, participate and go home is any different then the other classes.

 

D Schram

Build your car to the rules, EC in theory was created to allow teams to "try-out" the champcar racing experience and see if it fit their Idea of racing.  Want to win a trophy, make your car legal.  The other classes still build to the rule book.

[frankrehnelt]

Also an EC can have an advantage during full course yellows Two EC cars gained a lap at AMP because the pace car picked up the first legal car. 

[hotrod]

19 minutes ago, CCR said:

I would like to understand the rational behind not recognizing the EC group for 3 podium places, and trophies. Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe we pay the same entry fee as all the other classes? I also believe that from an overhead cost, EC is less because it requires less tech and points evaluation both prior to and post race. This may be seem very petty, but racing is very competitive and when all is done it would be nice to recognized.  Again I do not believe our money spent to get there, participate and go home is any different then the other classes.

 

D Schram

The closing rate and speed of some of the EC cars is a bit of a concern. I do have to side with you a little. I don't think EC cars should be eligible for the top three overall but I do think they should be recognized more in their own way.   

 

[hotrod]

7 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said:

Also an EC can have an advantage during full course yellows Two EC cars gained a lap at AMP because the pace car picked up the first legal car. 

That's easy to change. It's also not fair for the other EC cars.

[frankrehnelt]

We make it more fair for the EC cars or more fair for the legal cars where the pace car picks up the field. Can’t have both during full course cautions. A car running in EC can run for the overall. Take your points and start with laps. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by frankrehnelt

[riche30]

49 minutes ago, CCR said:

I would like to understand the rational behind not recognizing the EC group for 3 podium places, and trophies. Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe we pay the same entry fee as all the other classes? I also believe that from an overhead cost, EC is less because it requires less tech and points evaluation both prior to and post race. This may be seem very petty, but racing is very competitive and when all is done it would be nice to recognized.  Again I do not believe our money spent to get there, participate and go home is any different then the other classes.

 

D Schram

We don't recognize the A, B, C or D classes for podiums or trophies either beyond 1st place.  Why would we recognize the class that doesn't confirm to the ruleset at all differently?

Frankly, you're in EC.  There is a large group of us that take the attitude you aren't competing.  If you were, you'd be taking your laps and racing against us in the same race.  Instead you're running your own.

[Andrew D Johnson]

1 hour ago, CCR said:

I would like to understand the rational behind not recognizing the EC group for 3 podium places, and trophies. Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe we pay the same entry fee as all the other classes? I also believe that from an overhead cost, EC is less because it requires less tech and points evaluation both prior to and post race. This may be seem very petty, but racing is very competitive and when all is done it would be nice to recognized.  Again I do not believe our money spent to get there, participate and go home is any different then the other classes.

 

D Schram

The price for EC is the same as any other car, and EC cars play an important role in the clubs financial well being. 

2.2.1. The Exception Class or “EC” car class is open to “ChampCar compatible” cars that wish to race with ChampCar but exceed the 1,000 point limit, or any team not wishing to compete for the overall win.

 

EC was originally designed as a place for people to try the series without having to build a car for the rule set. An example would be if you thought the series looked fun, and had a spec Miata, but were hesitant to modify your car before trying the series. You could come run your spec miata, or your improved touring car etc. to try the series out. 

It was soon after the series started that some teams enjoyed turning laps and the race experience but wanted to avoid the hassle of tech, and having to conform the car to a rule set. It was only then that the (2) race maximum was lifted from EC competitors. 

Some races like Daytona soon had 10+ EC cars, and winning EC was an accomplishment. It was decided that if X amount of cars enter a race, the winner will get a small trophy as recognition for winning EC. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Andrew D Johnson

[hotrod]

54 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said:

We make it more fair for the EC cars or more fair for the legal cars where the pace car picks up the field. Can’t have both during full course cautions. A car running in EC can run for the overall. Take your points and start with laps. 

Doesn't the pace car pick up the leader?

[Team Infiniti]

1 minute ago, hotrod said:

Doesn't the pace car pick up the leader?

A-D Leader, not EC

[CCR]

The question was based on not winning the overall race over all classes, this I agree would not be fair. But the comment on WRL, I do believe they recognize 3 podium places! Sorry you feel the way you do against the EC class, i am always amazed how many C cars are faster then our car, but I do not have an “attitude “ against them. It just means they have built a better car or have better drivers, and I believe that is the definition of racing!!!!! 

 

[frankrehnelt]

Sorry if it came out that way. I have no problems with EC cars joining us. I like them actually. The classes (A B C D EC) get trophies for first. The overall gets 1 2 and 3. Adding a second and third place to the classes would add considerable expense and we might need to do more at impound. Also the award ceremony would be much longer. 

[hotrod]

I wouldn't have a problem with EC cars getting a 1-2-3 among themselves. Leave the 1-2-3 overall and the first in A B C D. Only adding two more trophies.  

[frankrehnelt]

I think Champcars uniqueness is we all are going for the overall and the rules’ goal is to make the classes equal. EC is outside the rule book. I’d rather give more trophies to the ABCD classes so we can excite teams outside the top five but I’m not advocating for that expense. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by frankrehnelt

[frankrehnelt]

I’d rather add an overachiever award. Slowest fast lap in the top 10. That might be fun. Make the trophy look like a turtle. 

[CCR]

I have raced in NASA for 15 years in both the Southeast and MidSouth, we always recognized the top 3 places in all classes. We have raced in WRL this year and they recognized all 3 places. We all work hard on our cars, we spend lots of money and we all drive hard. Placing on the podium after an 8 hour race is a big deal, asking for recognition and trophy does not seem to be too much to ask. By the way the trophies given in Champ are unique and very nice, has anyone look at what EC gets? We won last year and we got a brake rotor. I notice AMP was a cam sprocket?????

[Justin9]

Just build a legal ChampCar...  aka A-D class car, problem solved...   basically EC cars are getting a 14 test session...

[Team Infiniti]

3 hours ago, CCR said:

The question was based on not winning the overall race over all classes, this I agree would not be fair. But the comment on WRL, I do believe they recognize 3 podium places! Sorry you feel the way you do against the EC class, i am always amazed how many C cars are faster then our car, but I do not have an “attitude “ against them. It just means they have built a better car or have better drivers, and I believe that is the definition of racing!!!!! 

 

I see what you’re getting at but  

 

The focus on classes comes from your background in SCCA/WRL, as others have said, this series  emphasizes racing against the entire field not 15 car size classes, this makes us unique, focusing on classes would make us just like every other race series.

 

I just came from a successful run in WRL/GP3 this weekend, it was a lot of fun but it’s not the same as this place, I would fight to keep Champ Car the way it is and that’s the resistance you’re feeling.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Team Infiniti

[CCR]

I am glad you just completed your car, we also built to the Champ rules for C class, made some races and changes that put us into EC. We excepted this and move to EC, we did not to make changes to go back too costly. Endurance racing is class racing we are not asking to change the classes we are racing to EC rules, we just feel all should be recognized after a long 8/14/24 hr race in all classes and the first three spots should be recognized like all other organizations. Again we do not feel we qualify for overall!!!!

[wvumtnbkr]

Champcar doesn't really have classes no matter what the rulebook says.

 

The classes were started because of the 5 sprint races that were held (or however few there were).

 

There is only actually 1 class in champcar.  There are no different rules for a,b,c,d class.  The rules are exactly the same.

 

EC rules are different.   Different for a reason.

 

In other words, the trophies are for the overall and the class trophies are just basically participation trophies.

 

He'll, the national champion is an A class car (or maybe b).

[hotrod]

7 minutes ago, CCR said:

I am glad you just completed your car, we also built to the Champ rules for C class, made some races and changes that put us into EC. We excepted this and move to EC, we did not to make changes to go back too costly. Endurance racing is class racing we are not asking to change the classes we are racing to EC rules, we just feel all should be recognized after a long 8/14/24 hr race in all classes and the first three spots should be recognized like all other organizations. Again we do not feel we qualify for overall!!!!

CCR I didn't get the memo that says we should dislike EC cars. I've stated before that we should recognize the EC cars with not an overall win but a 1-2-3 if there is enough EC cars. As you said your entry fee is the same & we're always looking for cars.
if I get on the Board I'll do what I can to convince other board members that we should show the EC teams some respect. 

[Team Infiniti]

2 minutes ago, hotrod said:

respect. 

There’s no disrespect, EC, AKA exception class cars, are just simply not built to comply with the same restrictive rules of the others and was originally designed for those that want to try us out without a compliant car. At this juncture classing was kind of an accident but we kept them.

 

it’s all in the name of the class, they are the exception.

 

 

 

[hotrod]

I get all that. There's many questions about growth, profitability, sustainability, car counts, attracting new teams etc. Yet to give out just two more trophies to recognize or reward the EC guys is sacrilege.   

[CCR]

Hey Rob if there are no different classes, why is there recognition of each class and a trophy? Should just be one? Again the point is we spend the same money to enter the race, we work just as hard, yet we are not recognized as part of the endurance class racing rules! Look at what we are given as a trophy, brake rotor, cam sprocket! We race against ourselves in class and enjoy it, but at the end of the day we are not part of the “club”.

Why!