Vision - Mission - Values - Goals - BoD Candidate Stance?

[LuckyKid]

Its my personal belief that the series requires a clear vision/mission, values and goals to align the BoD with Executive Leadership and guide TAC recommendations while having a basis of understanding of decisions for membership.  From my own personal outside view this is the root cause of rules ambiguity, inconsistent enforcement, and competing ideologies on where the series should go.   In a private company this is the responsibility of the CEO, but in CCES I believe the board will play a key role in getting this across the finish line.  Its gotten better, but in my view, its not completed yet.

I am nearing my decision for my vote and recommendations that I will make to our team members for voting.  Before I do I want to know where the current BoD candidates stand on this topic.

1.  Do you agree that a clear vision/mission, values and goals (that are actionable) need to be solidified and communicated as the key component for success of the series?
2.  Will you commit as a BoD member to pursue this as a key responsibility of your role?
3.  How will your experience help get this across the finish line and also help make sure its robust and actionable?
 

[hotrod]

38 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

1.  Do you agree that a clear vision/mission, values and goals (that are actionable) need to be solidified and communicated as the key component for success of the series?
2.  Will you commit as a BoD member to pursue this as a key responsibility of your role?
3.  How will your experience help get this across the finish line and also help make sure its robust and actionable?
 

1. The Vision/Mission should be pursued and achieved. That should include growth, close competition, rules enforced as written, cost containment, transparency with the membership, containment of "Free Parts", profitability, review and debate all questions and opinions from ChampCar Members, all decisions should be made while keeping the smaller teams in mind as well as the larger teams and must continue the to keep "Fun" a part of this type of racing.  ChampCar should be the first place people look to for Endurance Racing. 

2. Yes of course this one reason why I am running.

3. Check out my Bio to see the experience I have had in Motorsports. Link to Bio

 

Thanks for asking the questions good to see that there is still interest in the voting.

#berniemyersforchampcarbod.

[Jer]

Rules stability is the most important thing the Board can do for the series.  No one wants moving targets and values that change every year.  Rules stability keeps current teams racing and new teams know what they face coming in.

[hotrod]

1 hour ago, Jer said:

Rules stability is the most important thing the Board can do for the series.  No one wants moving targets and values that change every year.  Rules stability keeps current teams racing and new teams know what they face coming in.

I agree Jerry it's near the top of the list. I have mentioned that in other Q & A's.

[Still not Bob]

Rules stability is a huge thing, but I think many people don't see that some of the biggest "stability" issues are happening in the tech shed.  ChampCar is taking the liberty of re-interpreting the rules, and it is costing car owners a lot of money and driving teams away.  A few examples that I've seen and heard about from reliable sources:

 

Telling teams that are running cages that were fully legal for many years that they need to take points for materials because the cage is too safe:  The "extra" tubes or parts in these cars have no performance enhancement (i.e. they aren't in the engine compartment serving as a strut bar) and add weight.  We all know that weight is not a performance advantage, particularly if it is up high.  Tech should let those extra-heavy, extra-safe cages get protested in impound if a fellow competitor takes issue with them (we all know that no one is going to protest something like that).  The affected teams are being encouraged to get out a torch and cut out bars, etc.  Doing so will only make their cars FASTER and more dangerous.  That makes no sense, and is a waste of time and money on the part of the builder.  It also makes the builder think that Champcar tech is more interested in using rules to harass people than it is in using rules to keep them safe.

 

Re-interpreting what constitutes a good window net:  Window nets have been in our type of racing for years, yet suddenly a bunch of different Champ teams are scurrying to figure out how to close the tiny gap at the front of their window nets.  You know, the gap that you struggle to reach through to adjust your mirror.  The one that if you are lucky you can use to signal that you are headed into the pits.  Although there is no evidence that I've seen anywhere (please post it here if it exists) of window nets not doing what they are supposed to do, suddenly tech is telling people that the gap must go.  More money to be spent, for no good reason.

 

Requiring frequent replacement of window nets:  Apparently, a small percentage of ChampCars are stored outside in the sun.  Because of that, window nets now need to be replaced frequently.  Rather than just having some sense and looking to see what kind of condition a net is in, everyone just gets to spend more money now.  This is on top of the ever rising entry fees.  I hope no one discovers that some garages have mice in them and that mice occasionally gnaw on things.  If they do, we will be required to put a new net and belts in for every race.

 

ChampCar is supposed to be affordable.  We need stability in the rulebook and stability in the interpretation of the rule book.

 

 

 

[hotrod]

10 minutes ago, Still not Bob said:

Rules stability is a huge thing, but I think many people don't see that some of the biggest "stability" issues are happening in the tech shed.  ChampCar is taking the liberty of re-interpreting the rules, and it is costing car owners a lot of money and driving teams away.  A few examples that I've seen and heard about from reliable sources:

 

Telling teams that are running cages that were fully legal for many years that they need to take points for materials because the cage is too safe:  The "extra" tubes or parts in these cars have no performance enhancement (i.e. they aren't in the engine compartment serving as a strut bar) and add weight.  We all know that weight is not a performance advantage, particularly if it is up high.  Tech should let those extra-heavy, extra-safe cages get protested in impound if a fellow competitor takes issue with them (we all know that no one is going to protest something like that).  The affected teams are being encouraged to get out a torch and cut out bars, etc.  Doing so will only make their cars FASTER and more dangerous.  That makes no sense, and is a waste of time and money on the part of the builder.  It also makes the builder think that Champcar tech is more interested in using rules to harass people than it is in using rules to keep them safe.

 

Re-interpreting what constitutes a good window net:  Window nets have been in our type of racing for years, yet suddenly a bunch of different Champ teams are scurrying to figure out how to close the tiny gap at the front of their window nets.  You know, the gap that you struggle to reach through to adjust your mirror.  The one that if you are lucky you can use to signal that you are headed into the pits.  Although there is no evidence that I've seen anywhere (please post it here if it exists) of window nets not doing what they are supposed to do, suddenly tech is telling people that the gap must go.  More money to be spent, for no good reason.

 

Requiring frequent replacement of window nets:  Apparently, a small percentage of ChampCars are stored outside in the sun.  Because of that, window nets now need to be replaced frequently.  Rather than just having some sense and looking to see what kind of condition a net is in, everyone just gets to spend more money now.  This is on top of the ever rising entry fees.  I hope no one discovers that some garages have mice in them and that mice occasionally gnaw on things.  If they do, we will be required to put a new net and belts in for every race.

 

ChampCar is supposed to be affordable.  We need stability in the rulebook and stability in the interpretation of the rule book.

 

 

 

Welcome to the forums Still Not Bob (Maybe your Robert?) always good to see new opinions here.

Safety items are a bit different than some things in the rule book because well it's safety. But there are sometimes some knee jerk reactions that get implemented. The gap in the net is one that seems unnecessary unless you have a really small net. The net itself to replace it is a pretty cheap item compared to most other safety items. 

The constant changing of parts for points then the part is free is another way that costs are driven up. 

What extra bars on the cage are you saying are now points?

[Snorman]

2 hours ago, Still not Bob said:

Re-interpreting what constitutes a good window net:  Window nets have been in our type of racing for years, yet suddenly a bunch of different Champ teams are scurrying to figure out how to close the tiny gap at the front of their window nets.  You know, the gap that you struggle to reach through to adjust your mirror.  The one that if you are lucky you can use to signal that you are headed into the pits.  Although there is no evidence that I've seen anywhere (please post it here if it exists) of window nets not doing what they are supposed to do, suddenly tech is telling people that the gap must go.  More money to be spent, for no good reason.

 

ChampCar is supposed to be affordable.  We need stability in the rulebook and stability in the interpretation of the rule book.

One of the dumbest things I've seen the series do. Zero change to the wording of this rule in the BCCR between 2020 and 2021, but a completely different and completely subjective way of enforcing it by Tech people that didn't know what a "vertical plane" is. And how was the club notified of this completely arbitrary and changed way of interpreting the BCCR? Through Facebook posts by the Marketing Guy. It only came to light when a post was started on this forum calling out Tech and Marketing for changing the interpretation of the rule. 

Crap like that, and lots of other crap, needs to stop because I don't think this series is as healthy as some people would like everybody to believe. Look at the car counts...VIR, Road America, etc.. 

 

[Ray Franck]

10 hours ago, LuckyKid said:

1.  Do you agree that a clear vision/mission, values and goals (that are actionable) need to be solidified and communicated as the key component for success of the series?
2.  Will you commit as a BoD member to pursue this as a key responsibility of your role?
3.  How will your experience help get this across the finish line and also help make sure its robust and actionable?
 

 1 Yes I do

 2 Yes I do

 3 Focus on the busness, the board needs to work toward promotion, growth, and gaining sponsorship. The bylaws say the board votes on rule changes not change and write rules. We have the TAC and Tech which should review the petitions hash out the details present their recommendations and send to the board for a yes/no vote. How will my experience help ? Well I have witnessed several petitions that past boards have hashed out only to end up being the opposite of what the member petitioned for and TAC recomends. Tech has never been asked or included this should change, example the new fuel rule 

  Thanks for the questions Roy, it appears I need to address some on this thread, sorry for the about to be derail

[Hugh Jass]

1 hour ago, Snorman said:

One of the dumbest things I've..

 

 

What are you still doing here? I thought you rage quit the series? Does WRL not have a forum for you to piss and moan in?

[Ray Franck]

4 hours ago, Still not Bob said:

Rules stability is a huge thing, but I think many people don't see that some of the biggest "stability" issues are happening in the tech shed.  ChampCar is taking the liberty of re-interpreting the rules, and it is costing car owners a lot of money and driving teams away.  A few examples that I've seen and heard about from reliable sources:

 

Telling teams that are running cages that were fully legal for many years that they need to take points for materials because the cage is too safe:  The "extra" tubes or parts in these cars have no performance enhancement (i.e. they aren't in the engine compartment serving as a strut bar) and add weight.  We all know that weight is not a performance advantage, particularly if it is up high.  Tech should let those extra-heavy, extra-safe cages get protested in impound if a fellow competitor takes issue with them (we all know that no one is going to protest something like that).  The affected teams are being encouraged to get out a torch and cut out bars, etc.  Doing so will only make their cars FASTER and more dangerous.  That makes no sense, and is a waste of time and money on the part of the builder.  It also makes the builder think that Champcar tech is more interested in using rules to harass people than it is in using rules to keep them safe.

 

Re-interpreting what constitutes a good window net:  Window nets have been in our type of racing for years, yet suddenly a bunch of different Champ teams are scurrying to figure out how to close the tiny gap at the front of their window nets.  You know, the gap that you struggle to reach through to adjust your mirror.  The one that if you are lucky you can use to signal that you are headed into the pits.  Although there is no evidence that I've seen anywhere (please post it here if it exists) of window nets not doing what they are supposed to do, suddenly tech is telling people that the gap must go.  More money to be spent, for no good reason.

 

Requiring frequent replacement of window nets:  Apparently, a small percentage of ChampCars are stored outside in the sun.  Because of that, window nets now need to be replaced frequently.  Rather than just having some sense and looking to see what kind of condition a net is in, everyone just gets to spend more money now.  This is on top of the ever rising entry fees.  I hope no one discovers that some garages have mice in them and that mice occasionally gnaw on things.  If they do, we will be required to put a new net and belts in for every race.

 

ChampCar is supposed to be affordable.  We need stability in the rulebook and stability in the interpretation of the rule book.

 

 

 

  Well now not Bob I really do not know who you are but it appears you are complaining about inconsistency when what you have recieved is consistency.  

  Rule book clearly states how many bars you are allowed point free, you obviously have gone beyond that. SAFTEY. no Champcar Tech has dinged anyone for bars in between the A and B pillar, you know where the driver sits. Now if these extra bars you have are protecting your shock towers expect to pay the points for them.

  No Champcar Tech has ever said or demanded your driver window has to be sealed, an obscure facebook post by our media guy joking about fingernails out started a S storm. All Tech wants is coverage to the rule. We have had several roll overs in the last couple of years and to date no crushed extremities. You are welcome.  I don't think you can run a 10 year old net or belts the other searies either, but if that is the saftey equipment you want to race with do it somewhere else.

[Ray Franck]

1 hour ago, Snorman said:

One of the dumbest things I've seen the series do. Zero change to the wording of this rule in the BCCR between 2020 and 2021, but a completely different and completely subjective way of enforcing it by Tech people that didn't know what a "vertical plane" is. And how was the club notified of this completely arbitrary and changed way of interpreting the BCCR? Through Facebook posts by the Marketing Guy. It only came to light when a post was started on this forum calling out Tech and Marketing for changing the interpretation of the rule. 

Crap like that, and lots of other crap, needs to stop because I don't think this series is as healthy as some people would like everybody to believe. Look at the car counts...VIR, Road America, etc.. 

 

   Please stop, stop spreading misinformation and outright lies.

   Dude as stated above don't go away mad just go away.

[Snorman]

38 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

   Please stop, stop spreading misinformation and outright lies.

   Dude as stated above don't go away mad just go away.

lol...all lies, right Ray?  Those misinformed and lying TAC and BOD members in that thread who have no idea what they're talking about. 

 

 

[scottyk]

14 hours ago, Still not Bob said:

Rules stability is a huge thing, but I think many people don't see that some of the biggest "stability" issues are happening in the tech shed.  ChampCar is taking the liberty of re-interpreting the rules, and it is costing car owners a lot of money and driving teams away.  A few examples that I've seen and heard about from reliable sources:

 

Telling teams that are running cages that were fully legal for many years that they need to take points for materials because the cage is too safe:  The "extra" tubes or parts in these cars have no performance enhancement (i.e. they aren't in the engine compartment serving as a strut bar) and add weight.  We all know that weight is not a performance advantage, particularly if it is up high.  Tech should let those extra-heavy, extra-safe cages get protested in impound if a fellow competitor takes issue with them (we all know that no one is going to protest something like that).  The affected teams are being encouraged to get out a torch and cut out bars, etc.  Doing so will only make their cars FASTER and more dangerous.  That makes no sense, and is a waste of time and money on the part of the builder.  It also makes the builder think that Champcar tech is more interested in using rules to harass people than it is in using rules to keep them safe.

 

Re-interpreting what constitutes a good window net:  Window nets have been in our type of racing for years, yet suddenly a bunch of different Champ teams are scurrying to figure out how to close the tiny gap at the front of their window nets.  You know, the gap that you struggle to reach through to adjust your mirror.  The one that if you are lucky you can use to signal that you are headed into the pits.  Although there is no evidence that I've seen anywhere (please post it here if it exists) of window nets not doing what they are supposed to do, suddenly tech is telling people that the gap must go.  More money to be spent, for no good reason.

 

Requiring frequent replacement of window nets:  Apparently, a small percentage of ChampCars are stored outside in the sun.  Because of that, window nets now need to be replaced frequently.  Rather than just having some sense and looking to see what kind of condition a net is in, everyone just gets to spend more money now.  This is on top of the ever rising entry fees.  I hope no one discovers that some garages have mice in them and that mice occasionally gnaw on things.  If they do, we will be required to put a new net and belts in for every race.

 

ChampCar is supposed to be affordable.  We need stability in the rulebook and stability in the interpretation of the rule book.

 

 

 

FYI- I submitted a petition for the extra safety bars that teams have been getting points for. 

[Chris Huggins]

2 hours ago, scottyk said:

FYI- I submitted a petition for the extra safety bars that teams have been getting points for. 

Care to share with us?

 

what bars are we talking about here?

[scottyk]

2 hours ago, Chris Huggins said:

Care to share with us?

 

what bars are we talking about here?

Bar circled in yellow and a bar that runs from drivers head to passenger down bar.  Has zero effect on performance. 

[petawawarace]

2 hours ago, scottyk said:

Bar circled in yellow and a bar that runs from drivers head to passenger down bar.  Has zero effect on performance. 

The yellow circled bar would definitely stiffen the chassis and add rigidity to the rear suspension. That should be points for sure.  Doubt that would ever provide any extra safety in a series like Champcar.  Maybe in a much faster series it may in a very rare crash.  

[shutupracing]

1 hour ago, petawawarace said:

The yellow circled bar would definitely stiffen the chassis and add rigidity to the rear suspension. That should be points for sure.  Doubt that would ever provide any extra safety in a series like Champcar.  Maybe in a much faster series it may in a very rare crash.  

You forgot the green font I think. 

[Grufton]

6 hours ago, scottyk said:

Bar circled in yellow and a bar that runs from drivers head to passenger down bar.  Has zero effect on performance. 

 

 

If I understand correctly, the "yellow" bar can be point-free as long as the bar count behind the main hoop is four or less (and not directly connecting the rear shock towers.  The other I believe is a "petty bar" and is also point-free in my interpretation.

[enginerd]

1 hour ago, Grufton said:

 

If I understand correctly, the "yellow" bar can be point-free as long as the bar count behind the main hoop is four or less (and not directly connecting the rear shock towers.  The other I believe is a "petty bar" and is also point-free in my interpretation.

I think you are wrong. Free backstays must be as close to 45 degrees as practical. Any other backstays (backstays at some other angle) would exceed the free roll cage.

3.2.4. Appropriate main-hoop rear-supports (back- stays, labeled “6”) with no bends, located as close to 45 degrees from horizontal as practical are required.

[Chris Huggins]

7 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I think you are wrong. Free backstays must be as close to 45 degrees as practical. Any other backstays (backstays at some other angle) would exceed the free roll cage.

3.2.4. Appropriate main-hoop rear-supports (back- stays, labeled “6”) with no bends, located as close to 45 degrees from horizontal as practical are required.

3.2.12. Roll-cages may not have more than four (4) tubes installed behind the main hoop and two (2) of these must include the main-hoop rear-support (backstay) bars without value add.

[Grufton]

Elsewhere, the roll cage picture includes text that an X "may" be added between the rear backstays, but under a strict reading of the text, that is not the only point-free configuration.

 

That said however, per the wording, you should be able to add a rear strut brace for free as one of those four bars, but I have a tech desk response that says otherwise.

[Snorman]

12 minutes ago, Grufton said:

Elsewhere, the roll cage picture includes text that an X "may" be added between the rear backstays, but under a strict reading of the text, that is not the only point-free configuration.

 

That said however, per the wording, you should be able to add a rear strut brace for free as one of those four bars, but I have a tech desk response that says otherwise.

We took 10 points for one of the four bars being a "rear strut bar" from Day 1. I agree 100%, it should be free. An X-brace is likely just as effective as a single diagonal between the two main hoop back-stays and a "rear strut bar". Tech has at least been consistent about this based on racers I know who have also taken points for the same configuration behind the main hoop. 

 

 

[enginerd]

24 minutes ago, Chris Huggins said:

3.2.12. Roll-cages may not have more than four (4) tubes installed behind the main hoop and two (2) of these must include the main-hoop rear-support (backstay) bars without value add.

Oh fascinating. No limitations on the other two bars eh? Except of course if considered a strut bar (I had to cut a rear “strut bar” out of my roll cage in 2018)

[Jer]

On 11/12/2021 at 8:27 PM, Ray Franck said:

  Well now not Bob I really do not know who you are but it appears you are complaining about inconsistency when what you have recieved is consistency.  

  Rule book clearly states how many bars you are allowed point free, you obviously have gone beyond that. SAFTEY. no Champcar Tech has dinged anyone for bars in between the A and B pillar, you know where the driver sits. Now if these extra bars you have are protecting your shock towers expect to pay the points for them.

  No Champcar Tech has ever said or demanded your driver window has to be sealed, an obscure facebook post by our media guy joking about fingernails out started a S storm. All Tech wants is coverage to the rule. We have had several roll overs in the last couple of years and to date no crushed extremities. You are welcome.  I don't think you can run a 10 year old net or belts the other searies either, but if that is the saftey equipment you want to race with do it somewhere else.

Ray, I think what he is referring to is the ramp up a few years ago on head and neck devices, the fender flares and now changing guidance on how wide they can be, the ramping up of firewalls, the ramping up of aging bladders in cells, the change to enforcement on fire suppression systems, now looking at more and more dates on things like roof nets.  No fuel jugs on a table on the cold side of pits?  Tech has made a lot of interpretations/stepping up of the rules or enforcement.  What you see as consistency others see as moving targets, barriers to entry, and a big increase in the costs of racing.  Just what I see and am not happy about.  

[Ray Franck]

1 hour ago, Jer said:

Ray, I think what he is referring to is the ramp up a few years ago on head and neck devices, the fender flares and now changing guidance on how wide they can be, the ramping up of firewalls, the ramping up of aging bladders in cells, the change to enforcement on fire suppression systems, now looking at more and more dates on things like roof nets.  No fuel jugs on a table on the cold side of pits?  Tech has made a lot of interpretations/stepping up of the rules or enforcement.  What you see as consistency others see as moving targets, barriers to entry, and a big increase in the costs of racing.  Just what I see and am not happy about.  

  Damn all I see is him wanting extra bars for free.

  Fuel is dangerous Jer flagrant disrespect for that fact is gonna get people hurt, BAD. So you want to go back to fuel cells, pumps,hoses and filters open to leak directly onto the driver with no barrier ?  You want gas elivated on unstable benches, tables, blocking exit in case of a flash fireball and in harms way and subject to add to such fire ? You also want to be that guy holding 5 gallons of gas less than 3 feet from hot rotors and fuel splashback or many possible sources of ignition ? You are that guy ? 

  Face the FACT Jer pit road and our cars are many times safer now than 4 years ago very sorry YOU dont agree. But I take this job seriously and part of the reason Mike hired me was 30 + years in the fire service. As I said before gas is dangerous, vapor more so hope you don't find out first hand. I could say more but it will start to get personal, you have a great Thanksgiving and a Merry Christmas.  But as long as I have this job pit road, bulkheads, and tires within the body are not going to change. And keep your gas jugs on the ground til your teammate needs it. I dont want you to have to decide what you are going to do with it when that fireball melts your eyebrows off and you sure cant run or escape quickly holding it can ya ?