3" harness w/ HANS III?

[B-Rad]

BCCR:

 

NOTE THAT NECK RESTRAINT SYSTEMS ARE AVAILABLE FOR 2” AND 3” BELTS, AND YOU MUST
MATCH YOUR NECK RESTRAINT TO YOUR HARNESS.

 

Can someone confirm that it's ok to run a 3" harness with HANS III device? HANS claims that a 2" or 3" belt is fine. The belt manufacturers agree, but also state that the 3" belt will overlap the retaining tab. That seems a little iffy.

 

I submitted a ticket (TEU-H6V-WS9U) but haven't heard anything back. I'd like to get a harness ordered ASAP.

 

 

 

 

[Hugh Jass]

If you are still shopping, I'd recommend the Schroth Enduro in 2", it's expensive but they have been great and such a huge improvement over everything else I have tried.  

 

Don't forget our friends at Discovery offer 10% for ChampCar teams. 

 

https://discoveryparts.com/schroth-auto-racing-competition-harness-/6705-schroth-enduro-2x2-harness-black-fia-2027-pre-order.html

[TimS]

If you have current in date 3” belts and aren’t interested in changing them, yes they will work. The 2” over the HANS works a lot better and doesn’t slip off easily. Lots of options in belts. My recommendation is FIA certified(5 year)longer racing life compared to SFI(3 year).  The enduro Schroth makes adjusting them easy but are expensive. Lots of options at lower price point. Be safe make sure it fits correctly. Couple hundred dollars for a bargain set. 

[ETR]

Yeah just go with a 2" over the neck restraint.  You want it to sit properly without chance of sliding over.  With part of the belt already up on the edge, that's not a good look.

 

+1 for Discovery.  My new Sabelt enduro silver series harness just arrived from them yesterday, they are very well reviewed and I'm expecting a big improvement over my frustrating Safecraft lap belts.

 

FYI if you're in a hurry the schroth enduro doesn't look like it'll ship immediately.  Some say backorder, some say taking preorders. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by ETR
spelling

[mcoppola]

G Force makes a few belts with most of the features of the schroth’s for less than $300. They are very nice but nothing beats the material that schroth uses. 
We got ours from Discovery Parts too. Great service and Champcar discounts. 
I always thought 3” was better but I believe Schroth and some other harness manufacturers actually recommend and state that a 2” belt works better on the pelvis as well as fitting the HNR device better. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by mcoppola

[misshift]

The ease of latching and tightening Schroth belts are the best I've ever used. 2" shoulder belts sit in the HNR nice and solid. 5 year FIA rating makes the price worth it. Just don't store the car outside with the belts installed and expect the belts to last 5 years. 

[B-Rad]

While I appreciate all of the responses, this is more of a rules interpretation question. Is anyone aware of a driver being turned around at pit-out for having the shoulder belts hanging over the edge of a HANS?

 

HANS says it's ok. Harness manufacturers say it's ok. But the BCCR says to match the harness to the HNR.

 

The situation:

 

We've experimented with a few different harnesses over the years. Latch and link vs camlock. Pull up vs pull down lap belts. 5pt vs 6pt. Yadda yadda. The one thing that has been a constant is a 3x2 configuration because we like the way the 2" shoulder belt fits with the HANS. So we purchased a GForce set (yes, from Discovery ) and the adjusters for the sub belt cannot be located in an acceptable position. So back they went. After seeing the GForce belts, we were impressed with the quality. Unfortunately, GForce doesn't sell the configuration that we want so that we can avoid the sub belt adjuster situation. UNLESS, we go to a 3" belt all around. Some might say, "just get the 2" set". Well, the 2" has pull up lap belts. No bueno for us.

 

Another option is Sparco. But now that I've seen the quality of the GForce belt, it's tough to spend 2X the $. Unless of course, the rules push me in that direction.

 

 

[tommytipover]

2 hours ago, B-Rad said:

NOTE THAT NECK RESTRAINT SYSTEMS ARE AVAILABLE FOR 2” AND 3” BELTS,

 

My opinion is that this statement, from the BCCR,  is false. Likely a manifestation of rules being made up in the tech line. This made up rule actually has been codified into the rule book.

[misshift]

I have used the 3" with my HNR with Champcar and other organizations. Never was told no go but it was many years ago.

I had difficulties with the adjusters being right at the seat holes due to a small waist line. If I remember correctly the Schroth lap belts can be changed from either pull up or pull down which fixed the issue. Possibly other brands do as well?

 

[mcoppola]

3 hours ago, B-Rad said:

While I appreciate all of the responses, this is more of a rules interpretation question. Is anyone aware of a driver being turned around at pit-out for having the shoulder belts hanging over the edge of a HANS?

 

HANS says it's ok. Harness manufacturers say it's ok. But the BCCR says to match the harness to the HNR.

 

The situation:

 

We've experimented with a few different harnesses over the years. Latch and link vs camlock. Pull up vs pull down lap belts. 5pt vs 6pt. Yadda yadda. The one thing that has been a constant is a 3x2 configuration because we like the way the 2" shoulder belt fits with the HANS. So we purchased a GForce set (yes, from Discovery ) and the adjusters for the sub belt cannot be located in an acceptable position. So back they went. After seeing the GForce belts, we were impressed with the quality. Unfortunately, GForce doesn't sell the configuration that we want so that we can avoid the sub belt adjuster situation. UNLESS, we go to a 3" belt all around. Some might say, "just get the 2" set". Well, the 2" has pull up lap belts. No bueno for us.

 

Another option is Sparco. But now that I've seen the quality of the GForce belt, it's tough to spend 2X the $. Unless of course, the rules push me in that direction.

 

 

There is nothing in the bccr that does not allow 3” belts with an HNR. 
Tech is always working with teams to highlight and suggest “best practices” but I've never heard of a team failing tech or being held at pit out for using 3” belts. 
 

we ran into the exact same issue with the sub belt adjusters. I had to move the anchor points slightly rearward under the seat to keep the hardware under the seat. Might that work out for your application too? 
I’ve seen cars where the sub belt adjuster hardware was above the seat pan, inside of the drivers legs. No issues reported or experienced, I just wanted mine underneath. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by mcoppola

[B-Rad]

4 hours ago, mcoppola said:

There is nothing in the bccr that does not allow 3” belts with an HNR. 
Tech is always working with teams to highlight and suggest “best practices” but I've never heard of a team failing tech or being held at pit out for using 3” belts. 
 

we ran into the exact same issue with the sub belt adjusters. I had to move the anchor points slightly rearward under the seat to keep the hardware under the seat. Might that work out for your application too? 
I’ve seen cars where the sub belt adjuster hardware was above the seat pan, inside of the drivers legs. No issues reported or experienced, I just wanted mine underneath. 

What the BCCR states is precisely why I started this topic.

 

I understand that some people have had good luck using the tech desk for clarification on these things. That hasn't been my experience so far.

 

But anywho. We actually did move the anchor points rearward. Still couldn't get the adjusters under the seat pan. We also couldn't get comfortable with them between our legs. What's funny is the belt configuration that we want seems to be the only configuration that GForce doesn't offer. Just our luck. 

 

There's probably an SFI option, but as others have stated, that isn't the best value.

[TimS]

Momo now has a belt set similar to the Schroth for a couple hundred less. I have a set of Pyrotect 2” to 3” FIA 6 point belts. All good except lap belt is sometimes difficult to adjust. Half the cost of Schroth. 

[Ron_e]

We have an SFI certified shop here in Calgary for belts and window nets.  Their harnesses are all 3" but I wanted 2" for the HANS.  She said no problem, she just folds it over and sews them and was back in 10 minutes with my 2" belts.  They also recertify and sew on a new tag after inspection for a small fee.

[TimS]

18 hours ago, Ron_e said:

We have an SFI certified shop here in Calgary for belts and window nets.  Their harnesses are all 3" but I wanted 2" for the HANS.  She said no problem, she just folds it over and sews them and was back in 10 minutes with my 2" belts.  They also recertify and sew on a new tag after inspection for a small fee.

That is an awesome resource. 

[B-Rad]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:58 AM, ETR said:

Yeah just go with a 2" over the neck restraint.  You want it to sit properly without chance of sliding over.  With part of the belt already up on the edge, that's not a good look.

 

+1 for Discovery.  My new Sabelt enduro silver series harness just arrived from them yesterday, they are very well reviewed and I'm expecting a big improvement over my frustrating Safecraft lap belts.

 

FYI if you're in a hurry the schroth enduro doesn't look like it'll ship immediately.  Some say backorder, some say taking preorders. 

 

We ended up going with the Sabelt Enduro. Problem solved. Very nice belts, BTW.